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Victoria Eighteen Sailboat

Discussion in ' Sailboats ' started by Harold Anderson , Aug 26, 2011 .

Harold Anderson Junior Member

Looking for owners of Victoria Eighteen Sailboats. Want to discuss modifications. Please email me at [email protected] Thanks Harold  

Doug Lord Flight Ready

Victoria 18 Harold, I'm not an owner but I am curious about what mods you had in mind?  

PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

I'm very familiar with the Victory 18, having repaired and restored a few. So, you need rudder repairs too . . .  

I am looking to reduce weather helm. It's bad! Boat wants to round up all the time and I am constantly using pressure to control the rudder with the tiller. Have tried changing mast rake with very little improvement if any. Moved gear all over the boat also with no effect. Thought of mabey a bow sprit. I guess they built a couple of cutter rigged victoria eighteens supposedly to cope with the weatherhelm. What about a ketch rig? A small mizzen mabey? Also the sleeping arrangements are horrible. I think they were designed for midget midgets! No harm intended. The accomodations are port and starboard on the sides. Please reply if you have ideas about the weatherhelm. I am a novice and don't know where to go from here. I don't want to be fighting the tiller the entire trip though thats for sure. Thanks Harold  

CutOnce Previous Member

Harold Anderson said: ↑ I am looking to reduce weather helm. It's bad! Boat wants to round up all the time and I am constantly using pressure to control the rudder with the tiller. Have tried changing mast rake with very little improvement if any. Moved gear all over the boat also with no effect. Thought of mabey a bow sprit. I guess they built a couple of cutter rigged victoria eighteens supposedly to cope with the weatherhelm. What about a ketch rig? A small mizzen mabey? Also the sleeping arrangements are horrible. I think they were designed for midget midgets! No harm intended. The accomodations are port and starboard on the sides. Please reply if you have ideas about the weatherhelm. I am a novice and don't know where to go from here. I don't want to be fighting the tiller the entire trip though thats for sure. Thanks Harold Click to expand...

Harold, you inexperience as a sailor is very likely the cause of the weather helm sensation you are feeling. This isn't a personal dig at you, but an observation from many that have sailed one with limited experience. The Vic 18 wants to sail on her hear, not flat, which is one of the big problems most have with her, they tend to over sheet the old gal, trying in vain to right her, which just makes her ***** and moan, offering a lot of helm pressure to remind you to ease the sheets. Her preferred angle of heel is 12 degrees or more, depending on wind strength. The rudder on this boat was a source of difficulty and not as well shaped as it could be. Most make modifications. The factory made a shorter version called the Victoria 17, but with a transom hung rudder, which solved the issue. The cutter rig was an option, but very few were actually built (3 or 4) and it wasn't to address a weather helm issue, but to satisfy a perceived client demand. The sloop is the better sailor by far. The rudder was redesigned a few times and reports of the later models are that they work better (what year is yours?). There was once a web site for them and a discussion forum, but I don't know if it's still active. They made 300 or 400 of these boats and there are many in my area, most can be had for next to nothing. As a keel boat goes they get killed by more modern canoe bodies and being the shoal draft version of a Minuet 18, it lacked ability to windward too. The rudder needs more area, which is usually tacked on aft. Since this is a part that often needs to be rebuilt, I've modified everyone I've worked on with good results. I added about 20% more area to the trailing edge and reshaped it for better flow.  

Paul, here is the website: http://www.victoriayachts.com/vicsite/index.html  

strattm New Member

PAR said: ↑ Harold, you inexperience as a sailor is very likely the cause of the weather helm sensation you are feeling. This isn't a personal dig at you, but an observation from many that have sailed one with limited experience. The Vic 18 wants to sail on her hear, not flat, which is one of the big problems most have with her, they tend to over sheet the old gal, trying in vain to right her, which just makes her ***** and moan, offering a lot of helm pressure to remind you to ease the sheets. Her preferred angle of heel is 12 degrees or more, depending on wind strength. The rudder on this boat was a source of difficulty and not as well shaped as it could be. Most make modifications. The factory made a shorter version called the Victoria 17, but with a transom hung rudder, which solved the issue. The cutter rig was an option, but very few were actually built (3 or 4) and it wasn't to address a weather helm issue, but to satisfy a perceived client demand. The sloop is the better sailor by far. The rudder was redesigned a few times and reports of the later models are that they work better (what year is yours?). There was once a web site for them and a discussion forum, but I don't know if it's still active. They made 300 or 400 of these boats and there are many in my area, most can be had for next to nothing. As a keel boat goes they get killed by more modern canoe bodies and being the shoal draft version of a Minuet 18, it lacked ability to windward too. The rudder needs more area, which is usually tacked on aft. Since this is a part that often needs to be rebuilt, I've modified everyone I've worked on with good results. I added about 20% more area to the trailing edge and reshaped it for better flow. Click to expand...

Harold Anderson said: ↑ Looking for owners of Victoria Eighteen Sailboats. Want to discuss modifications. Please email me at [email protected] Thanks Harold Click to expand...

Hi: I have acquired a Victoria 18 and it is missing a pin that holds the bottom of the rudder to the hull. Any info on what that pin looks like and where to get one? Mike, Thanks Harold Anderson said: ↑ I am looking to reduce weather helm. It's bad! Boat wants to round up all the time and I am constantly using pressure to control the rudder with the tiller. Have tried changing mast rake with very little improvement if any. Moved gear all over the boat also with no effect. Thought of mabey a bow sprit. I guess they built a couple of cutter rigged victoria eighteens supposedly to cope with the weatherhelm. What about a ketch rig? A small mizzen mabey? Also the sleeping arrangements are horrible. I think they were designed for midget midgets! No harm intended. The accomodations are port and starboard on the sides. Please reply if you have ideas about the weatherhelm. I am a novice and don't know where to go from here. I don't want to be fighting the tiller the entire trip though thats for sure. Thanks Harold Click to expand...

Sorry to tell you that Paul Riccelli passed away. RIP Mr. Paul [PAR] Riccelli https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/rip-mr-paul-par-riccelli.60437/ You may find some contact information here: VICTORIA 18 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=28  

Hank Abt New Member

Sorry to hear about Mr. Riccelli. Great loss. His designs were interesting. Can the riverboat series plans still be purchased?  

Vic18Larry New Member

I also am seeking rudder repair info and pictures/videos as I just acquired a Victoria 18 in need of saving. Larry Toole  

Donald P New Member

Good morning Larry and all... I was researching the Skimmer this morning and found a few posts her that i thought I would offer some possible input on. It sounds like Paul was an avid sailor and designer with lots of wonderful years spent about salty projects, well, good for him! It's a dream for most of us I'm sure to aspire to reach his level of knowledge and experience level with people and all things nautical! "Here here" to Paul and his love of boats! The Vic 18... I bought this boat somewhere in '97 or maybe 2000... I don't remember exactly. These things sort of get lost once you have been involved so long that you cant remember what it was like to be without something water based like this in your life. But I digress. So the two major issues confronting owners of the Vic 18 are and have been generally thru-hulls and Rudders. That's a pretty good record considering all the stresses these boats take on over their sailing lives, not to mention those that get abandoned, fill with water, or come off their trailers from unexpected situations. All of that in mind, the Victoria has been a solid and extremely safe boat to its owners. I have seen nothing in my 20+ years of sailing, talking, meeting, sharing and communication about the Victoria that points to anyone loosing a Vic due to capsizing, hard sailing, weather extremes or anything other than storms or other natural disasters. Neither have i heard of anyone being hurt or seriously injured due to any issue with these boats. Simply put, they are safe, semi-efficient, solid basic performing sailboats that will give you the thrill of 12 to 28 degrees of heel in the right conditions within an excellent safety envelope. Even for beginners... she is forgiving - mostly due to her weather helm, always rounding up quickly, unless coaxed not to. As far as the Rudder Pin.. I will get the specs, but I believe its simply a basic brass 5/16th or so SAE 3.5" bolt, screwed into the base of the receiver through the rudder, with a removable Loctite (Blue - NOT red). Its been a while... but for some reason I believe we cut the hex heads off of this bolt afterwards, as the assembly was actually held in place and secured at the top of the rudder shaft. Right now I don't know the exact reason for cutting the head off. I think maybe leaving the head on would allow the pin to worry lose as the rudder surface near the bolt head turned on the non rotating bolt head with enough friction over time to allow the bolt to worry free. This is probably not much to worry about for a a dry docked Vic, but is something to be concerned about when a Vic is at a mooring or docked for extended periods. It goes without saying that whenever I sail the Vic and hit 15 to 25 or more degree heel, I get gasps from those in other boats in close proximity, and even from folks on shore "uh oh !! Whoa !! look at that! Shes going over!" only to be followed by "wow" as she continues pushing through the water without stopping, reaching for the next tack. The summer before last I got hit with a very strong gust with myself and another person on the Vic. I was being followed by someone on another boat who witnessed exactly what happened and relayed that to me afterwards. I am not one to push the Vic in a steep heel during a stiff breeze, that basically does the same thing as putting your foot on the accelerator and the brake at the same time while driving. Lots of energy directed into not much movement but lots of stress on the equipment. So the boat heeled, and then kept going as I pulled on the rudder to maintain course through the gust, while attempting to let out the main sheet at the same time. My timing was off and the main sheet slipped out of my hand as the boat continued to roll and I reached out for balance on the starboard side standing rigging. The Vic's bottom paint clearly visible now out of the water to such a degree that the boat almost hit what felt like 40 but was probably more like 30 or 32 degrees or more. I remember standing on the port coaming as if it were the cockpit floor. I could see the bottom of the boom in front of me swinging down toward the water, and it was reported that almost the entire rudder was out of the water (from what the boat following us could see). I did not however feel the rudder go slack, so I think that report was more of an "oh my god shes going over" though in reality it wasn't there. In any case water spilled over the coaming and into the cockpit for a split second as the displacement wave turned back on itself and entered the boat after its initial push away. The lead shoal keel took over at this point of course, without any of my help. I was still hoping my grip on the starboard rigging (now directly behind my back), would hold me. I had no clue where my passenger was, although there was movement and clawing noises coming from beside me..!!!! The boat slowly creaked back into the norm, first to 28, 25, 20, then rocked back into a standard 12 to 15 degree heel. I would bet that is the furthest any Vic has ever gone over. And although i'm not a master at sailing, this single experience has given me the ability to both feel safe, push this little boat further than the average person might attempt simply because they do not know its maximum ability to not roll, and maintain a safety margin to not get back there again in an emergency. That rudder was working hard no doubt. I haven't calculated the stress placed on that few square feet (if that) in that kind of a situation, but it has to be up there for a design load. So in that, I am wondering if adding even more surface area to the rudder might create a moment (twisting action) about the rudder shaft, that would overcome the basic design of the rudder to cause damage to the wings (internal stainless bar stock supports (I think 2), welded to the shaft aft to support the stresses of the rudder under load). It all has to do with the sizing, location, and number of those wings and whether they are webbed together or free standing. I believe they are independent stainless bar stock welded to the shaft(with holes drill possibly for adherence of the fiberglass) and not connected together. Now... if those supports were not welded to the shafts center, but wrapped around the shaft and then welded forming an almost wing like surface for each of the supports. That would have given the design a much much stronger ability to counter the loads, for adding a larger surface area, and it could have supported the use of lighter stainless material because you would pick up strength due to the width of the supports being placed outwards around the diameter of the shaft and not simply welding to the center line of it. Man I hope this is not overkill!!! "Brevity is the soul of wit" William Shakespeare - Hamlet  

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David Oro New Member

Hello Donald: I have read your comments above several times and I really appreciate all the insights. I have identified a Vic 18 and I have been considering buying it for a while but if possible I would really appreciate being able to speak with you on the phone or on this platform to ask more about the sailing performance. I am an experienced sailor and in fact I owned a Vic 17 several years back. I really enjoyed sailing her but indeed she always heels much more than most boats-- and I easily got used to it. I am no performance freak... I just want a boat for day sailing that I can take out under most normal wind conditions: 10 - 15 knots with ocasional gusts to 20 knots. Your comments would indicate that the Vic 18 is safe and as you said "semi efficient" which I took to mean that we would like to be able to point up to the wind more .... but it is reasonable. Is this correct? BTW the boat I am considering is a 1981 so she should have the rudder improvements that you mentioned for later year models. If possible, please call me at 786-253-4949 and/or zap me an email at [email protected] . I thank you very much in advance. Best regards, David  

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